Curse

Mandy Memory · Apr 25, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

The 55s would then just change to any other class. Because they would all easily be able to solo any area.

Maria The Princess · Apr 25, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

considering no mission in GW can't take more then 3hours (even FOW takes less time).... why not automaticly boot a character out ofthe server game evry 3 hours?....

hahahaha

i'm joking!!!!!!

i think the only way to stop Bots is to throw in a few mesmers and necros here and there... randomly spaming, so a real playerwith a 55hp will know how to avoid them or beatthem, but a stupid bot will get stuk every time because the Botter will not be able to predict where the mesmer or necro will be, so no SB in the world can help... cuz its random. i mea, leavethehydras and ettins and stuff... but throw in a necro that spaws in diffrent locationsevery time

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 25, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Removing the -hp wouldn't solve anything. Instead of 55hp's going out to kill trolls you'll have w/mo's. Although I believe there does need to be a change when it comes to the runes. -0hp for minors, -50 for majors and -75 for superiors? Shouldn't the -hp be equally segmented since the bonus to the attribute is? So -25 for minors, -50 for majors and -75 for superiors. That way the vigor runes can replace the amount taken away. +25 for minor, +50 for major and +75 for superior. Also if two of the same runes don't have their bonuses stacked why should the penelty?

The bot issue has been discussed before. Best suggestion I've heard someone say is randomization of the enemies in terms of spawn location, classes the groups are made up of and skills they use individually. Bots require advanced knowledge of where they are, what classes they are and the skills they use. Take that advanced knowledge away and the program wouldn't be able to compensate for the constant change.

skatehabitat24 · Apr 25, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

There isnt going to be a way to stop bots, at least not yet the best thing i can tell you is to just play the game and stop worrying about them its part of many games the economy adjusts and all you need to do is adjust with it so instead of making huge comments on how to stop them why dont you just play the game, really wtf do they ever do to you? Do they sit there and call you a newb all day? No they dont, imo they are cooler then regular people cause they never give you lip : ) but seriously just play the game...

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 25, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

really wtf do they ever do to you?

lol Don't get me started. All I will say is do a search and read some threads.

I will say one thing.

http://www.guildwars.com/press/inter...e-friday61.php

Quote:

But sometimes differences in the distribution of wealth can be extreme; a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore.

Taken from the article.

That's WTF they did to me and many more.

Caldec · Apr 25, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markaedw

How about this: just remove the penalty stack as well as the beifit stack

what do you mean by benifit stack because if you have 2 of the same rune it doesnt stack do you mean you can only gain benifit from one rune at a time that hurts other classes that use 1 sup and sum minors bcuz then they dont get the +1 bonuses from the other runes

Matsumi · Apr 25, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

So, Sharparrow, would you say that the 55 build itself is effecting you, or is it the bots that farm so they can sell large sums of gold for real life money affecting you?

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 25, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

So, Sharparrow, would you say that the 55 build itself is effecting you, or is it the bots that farm so they can sell large sums of gold for real life money affecting you?

Not the build but rather repetitive farming. Bot or not it doesn't matter. The selling gold on ebay doesn't have this effect since it is only changing the money from one person to another. It would be like me giving you 100k from my charater to yours in game. The problem Anet has with stuff being sold on ebay is that the people doing it are illegally selling anet owned property. It's the repetitive farming that generates the gold in the first place that causes the problem. Bots and sweatshop farmers making up more than 3/4 of all the repetitive farming in the game the randomization would (I believe) not only eliminate the bots but may even make it impossible for the sweatshop farmers since any solo farm build requires advance knowledge of the enemies before entering the combat area.

Matsumi · Apr 25, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

See, the reason I ask is because I farm quite a bit with my 55 build, and I just don't understand why you think that's driving up prices on traded items. When I farm, I usually tend to get a bunch of useless junk, that all gets sold to the merchant mostly. After I accumulate enough wealth that I want to go buy something, it's usually 15k armor. I don't transfer any funds to anybody in game, it all goes to my storage for later use. Once I do have a use for it, I don't buy really expensive weapons from other players or give it to other players period, it's for my own uses. So, if what I'm doing is driving up the prices on anything, it sure isn't the raven staves or troll tusks I get for example, so what is it really doing? Besides being given to the merchants and traders that are NPC's for exchange of goods or armor.

Justafyme · Apr 25, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Ok...so with your idea you may be able to stop 55's from doing the uw solo or fow...but as I have already mentioned in several threads of this nature...you still have another problem..the little diddy known as the death penalty. Unless Anet removes the DP you aren't going to stop 55'ers..see it'll work like this ...I have my superior runes which (lets say the 2 runes that are the same no longer stack..and let's say you take away my cesta..and also that my superiors only have a -50 instead of the current -75) There are countless other -health items out there...so I use one of those..now AGAIN..so long as I AM NOT doing uw or fow..I run to the first mob and leeeeeroy my bad self..as many times as I need to. Yes, this would make it slower..but it doesn't stop me from doing it. I don't know the exact number I could hit with a 60% DP and no negative from superior runes (if that happened to be the case)..but I'm sure my fellow monks and I could figure something out.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 25, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

You get junk thanks to updates made buy anet on the issue. It was their solution to make it not worth the time to farm but just ruined it for everyone. You say you use your 55hp to farm, well I used mine to do the same when I had it. But the question is when you go on the game do you spend 90% of your time farming or doing quests and missions? I did such little farming when I was on that I got rid of the 55hp build and made it into a normal monk. I even deleted my w/mo that I used sometime to make a more interesting to play w/e that I am currently playing through every mission and quest in the game.

Quote:

So, if what I'm doing is driving up the prices on anything, it sure isn't the raven staves or troll tusks I get for example, so what is it really doing?

You ask that as if it was me that said it happens. It was anet themselves (who would know the mechanics of the game better than anyone here) who said it. Mind you they said this before the updates that ruined the drop rates and the updates have worked quited a bit. Prices have dropped considerably since the updates but they've ruined for everyone not just the repetitive farmers. I believe the randomization would have been much more effective and the drop rates could be the way they used to.

Matsumi · Apr 25, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

You get junk thanks to updates made buy anet on the issue. It was their solution to make it not worth the time to farm but just ruined it for everyone. You say you use your 55hp to farm, well I used mine to do the same when I had it. But the question is when you go on the game do you spend 90% of your time farming or doing quests and missions? I did such little farming when I was on that I got rid of the 55hp build and made it into a normal monk. I even deleted my w/mo that I used sometime to make a more interesting to play w/e that I am currently playing through every mission and quest in the game.

You ask that as if it was me that said it happens. It was anet themselves (who would know the mechanics of the game better than anyone here) who said it. Mind you they said this before the updates that ruined the drop rates and the updates have worked quited a bit. Prices have dropped considerably since the updates but they're ruined for everyone not just the repetitive farmers. I believe the randomization would have been much more effective and the drop rates could be the way they used to.

I'm not complaining that I get junk, in fact, I would like more inventory space to hold more junk to sell. I've completed all the missions and quests across a total of 5 characters, 2 characters I deleted. One after it got ascended, and another at level 12 when I didn't like the playability of it. I have maybe a couple of titan quests or less on each of my current characters left to do. I think it's worth the time to still get junk and sell it to the merchant if I need gold.

Well, the second part of what you said was that it wasn't you that made it up, but earlier you quoted it and said "That's WTF they did to me and many more". So, I took that along with how it was affecting you. Besides, what was quoted from there can be taken several different ways. Are they talking about accumulating wealth ten times as fast by doing a particular thing? Or maybe whipping out their credit cards and purchasing gold in mass quantities? It's a very foggy sort of quote on how wealth is obtained at a rate ten times faster than the average player. So, besides the quote being in the situation, the original question still remains.

Sidra · Apr 25, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I'm not going to read this topic, but I will go outright here and say this: there couldn't be anything less simple than that, barring a few exceptions.

lyra_song · Apr 25, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

There is no way to stop botting~~~

Botting exists in every MMORPG~~~

*dances about*

Removing the -75 and -50 would remove the tactical nuances of runes altogether.

The best thing that Anet can do is create an environment where pro-bot farmers are NOT profitable. Ie: Not cost efficient and removing the incentive to bot.

When you sign up to certain websites, they tell you to type in an alphanumeric combination that is designed to stop scripts from automatically signing up, because it takes a human eye to figure out the text (hell sometimes you cant even figure out what it says!).

ANYWAYS....they should put that in guild wars.

If your player begins to display characteristics of a bot ie: repetitive actions over and over for many hours and not logging off, it brings up a popup asking you to type in the text. It happens very quickly, and isnt on a timed interval, but happens kind of randomly.

If you fail, it disconnects you.

XD

Sounds a little extreme...but tahts the best i can come up with. XD A pro-bot farmer would have to be extremely watchful of the various bots he is running.

Matsumi · Apr 25, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

There is no way to stop botting~~~

Botting exists in every MMORPG~~~

*dances about*

Removing the -75 and -50 would remove the tactical nuances of runes altogether.

The best thing that Anet can do is create an environment where pro-bot farmers are NOT profitable. Ie: Not cost efficient and removing the incentive to bot.

When you sign up to certain websites, they tell you to type in an alphanumeric combination that is designed to stop scripts from automatically signing up, because it takes a human eye to figure out the text (hell sometimes you cant even figure out what it says!).

ANYWAYS....they should put that in guild wars.

If your player begins to display characteristics of a bot ie: repetitive actions over and over for many hours and not logging off, it brings up a popup asking you to type in the text. It happens very quickly, and isnt on a timed interval, but happens kind of randomly.

If you fail, it disconnects you.

XD

Sounds a little extreme...but tahts the best i can come up with. XD A pro-bot farmer would have to be extremely watchful of the various bots he is running.

That's the best idea I've heard so far. I like it.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 25, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

I've completed all the missions and quests across a total of 5 characters, 2 characters I deleted. One after it got ascended, and another at level 12 when I didn't like the playability of it. I have maybe a couple of titan quests or less on each of my current characters left to do. I think it's worth the time to still get junk and sell it to the merchant if I need gold.

Ah yes, I've heard that before. I've done every mission, bonus and quest and all I have left is farming. That's what the repeatalbe areas are for. Tombs, FoW and UW all are repeatable areas. Tombs being the most rewarding since you have a very good chance at getting a green item. Though most aren't worth anything some still are and if 20 or 30k is considered not worth anything to you then you spend way too much time farming.

I've done my fair share of farming and I've done almost every mission, bonus and quest. My avatar is my character that I used to play the game all the way through without being run, did every mission, bonus and quest before advancing furtherin the game and followed the storyline. I got 15k armor and a mursaat rare max hornbow all dyed black. I had all sup runes on but it didn't leave me with many hp so I changed that to two superior and three minor (one superior marksmanship and one superior vigor). All of which was only made possible because of getting lucky in tombs.

I'm doing it again with my W/E and I don't find it boring at all. Yeah sure it's repetitive but using the whole new class makes for a whole different way to play. With 6 classes you can get 30 combinations (only because the primaries offer something unique) which means 30 different ways you can play through the game. That number goes up when you include the different builds within each class combination. As repetitive as it is it's still not as repetitive as killing the same enemies over and over geting the same loot over and over and for rewarding, it all depends on what you consider rewarding.

Quote:

The best thing that Anet can do is create an environment where pro-bot farmers are NOT profitable. Ie: Not cost efficient and removing the incentive to bot.

They did this already. Notice that the drops are not nearly what they used to be.

Quote:

When you sign up to certain websites, they tell you to type in an alphanumeric combination that is designed to stop scripts from automatically signing up, because it takes a human eye to figure out the text (hell sometimes you cant even figure out what it says!).

Yes this would stop the bots although getting booted from the game may be a bit extreme. Put back into town would be better. This won't stop the sweatshop farmers which are just as bad.

Quote:

Are they talking about accumulating wealth ten times as fast by doing a particular thing? Or maybe whipping out their credit cards and purchasing gold in mass quantities? It's a very foggy sort of quote on how wealth is obtained at a rate ten times faster than the average player.

Nothing foggy about it. Of course they are talking about repetitive farming. Not buying it online. Only the repetitive farming generates the gold all the ebay gold buying does is send the money from one character to another. Like paying for a run. It doesn't generate new wealth and it doesn't destroy it either. The money simply goes from one person to another. So they are talking about going out into a combat area and bringing in the ten times amount of money which can only be done through repetitive farming of any kind.

Matsumi · Apr 25, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Ah yes, I've heard that before. I've done every mission, bonus and quest and all I have left is farming. That's what the repeatalbe areas are for. Tombs, FoW and UW all are repeatable areas. Tombs being the most rewarding since you have a very good chance at getting a green item. Though most aren't worth anything some still are and if 20 or 30k is considered not worth anything to you then you spend way too much time farming.

20k is actually a lot to me, because I only had about 6k when I ascended my first character. What if one gets bored of the repeatable areas? I don't enjoy green farming because I have to depend on others to give me the 20-30k you're talking about. I don't enjoy Tombs anymore either, I did at first, but it just got old. Any other ideas left for me to do? I would gladly pick up and abandon my goals at getting 15k armor for all my characters if there was something else to do in the meantime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Nothing foggy about it. Of course they are talking about repetitive farming. Not buying it online. Only the repetitive farming generates the gold all the ebay gold buying does is send the money from one character to another. Like paying for a run. It doesn't generate new wealth and it doesn't destroy it either. The money simply goes from one person to another. So they are talking about going out into a combat area and bringing in the ten times amount of money which can only be done through repetitive farming of any kind.

Ah, ok, that's what I was looking for. So, you support buying gold over the internet, much "like paying for a run". But, when it comes to people who farm that gold in order to sell it to you, that's where you're in disagreement, and anyone who farms to support their wants in the game. And, it is a very unclear quote taken from somewhere, because they are not saying by excessive farming directly. The only person saying that is yourself really. So, what I would say is that the people that are actually driving up the prices, are the ones that repeatitively buy online gold.

Anyway, I'm done talking, you've answered what I needed to know. Plus, I don't want to hijack this thread any further.

xRustyx · Apr 26, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

I think PvP characters should instantly be able to PvE, and start off with 400 skill points.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 26, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

20k is actually a lot to me, because I only had about 6k when I ascended my first character. What if one gets bored of the repeatable areas? I don't enjoy green farming because I have to depend on others to give me the 20-30k you're talking about. I don't enjoy Tombs anymore either, I did at first, but it just got old. Any other ideas left for me to do?

Got bored of the repeatable areas? And yet you don't get bored of killing the same enemies over and over. You don't enjoy green farming because you depend on others? Last I checked this is an MMORPG or a CORPG as it seems it's actually called. Either M for multiplayer or C for cooperative it still means more than one person playing together. Tombs has henchies so you don't need to team up in a full group of people. What anet should supply are ascended henchies for the UW and FoW as well.

Quote:

Ah, ok, that's what I was looking for. So, you support buying gold over the internet, much "like paying for a run". But, when it comes to people who farm that gold in order to sell it to you, that's where you're in disagreement, and anyone who farms to support their wants in the game. And, it is a very unclear quote taken from somewhere, because they are not saying by excessive farming directly. The only person saying that is yourself really. So, what I would say is that the people that are actually driving up the prices, are the ones that repeatitively buy online gold.

Nice speculating. Not once have I mentioned that I support buying or selling gold over the internet. The gold that is sold over the internet is done illegally. People without the permission of anet are selling anet property (gold and/or rare items) for real money. The ebay stuff also has an affect on the economy too. Also speak for yourself and only yourself.

I notice that the link isn't working so I'll see about getting working.

Here is a more informative quote.

Quote:

There are three ways that certain players earn more gold than the average. The first and most obvious way is that, because everyone plays the game differently, some players are able to find unusually profitable areas to hunt in, or tricky strategies for killing a lot of monsters quickly. The search for the most effective way to play can be a fun part of the game for everyone -- we all like to see how well our characters can do, and whether we can tweak our characters to be better than they were previously -- and so we at ArenaNet don’t consider this a problem unless it’s extreme. Although a very knowledgeable or tricky player may be able to earn gold twice as fast as the average, this tends not to create a significant problem, because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them. But sometimes differences in the distribution of wealth can be extreme; a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem, and we need to adjust the game to bring wealth distribution back into normal ranges. We constantly monitor the game, so we know when a certain place or technique is being heavily exploited. When an issue like this becomes too severe, we make tweaks as necessary to bring things back in line.

The second way that wealth distribution becomes a problem is when players use bots to farm gold around the clock. This is obviously unfair to the vast majority of players who play the game normally. We have no tolerance for bots. We constantly monitor for bots; we have tools that help us to easily identify them; and when we find people using bots, we permanently ban their accounts. This whole process is largely invisible to the average player, but behind the scenes, we’re regularly banning accounts for using bots.

The third issue, which is quickly becoming the biggest threat to the game’s economy, is companies that farm gold and items professionally and sell them for real-life cash. These companies hire large teams of people, often working in sweatshop-like conditions for very little pay, to play Guild Wars for many hours a day in order to rake in gold and items. The workers aren’t bots but they farm gold in similar ways, using very specific character builds to kill very specific monsters, running the same path and killing the same monsters hundreds of times each day, doing whatever exact sequence of actions their employer has determined is currently the most effective way to earn a lot of gold per hour. They then turn over what they’ve farmed to their employer, who sells the gold and items to other players for cash.

I really can't get any more clear. They are talking about repetitive farming. They mentioned 3 ways; bots, sweatshop farmers and the first way being any way else.

Zui · Apr 26, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Ok... Worthless thread but here I go...

1. Bots can not be stopped. The best you can hope to do is make it very hard to code a bot, or code bots to work in teams, maybe 3 instead of 1...

2. Many farming operations don't use bots. They use people from countries like Indonesia, where the wage is extremely low.

3. By suggesting that the health penalty be removed from Major and Superior runes, you will not be stopping any farming. There are ways to solo monk without using 5 -hp superior runes and the -50 hp grim cesta... Warrior/X can solo many many places in the game. Monks can again solo many places without being 55 monks.. Every class has many locations where they can farm, and a person could easily farm there, in most cases even a poorly coded bot.

4. By removing the health penalty on Major and Superior runes, you'll effectively unbalance PvP, and PvE. People could use even more multistatted builds effectively. You'd completely change the entire game, and the builds that are currently effective. To go along with this, the balance of the skills would also be drasticaly altered due to everyone having +3 attribute points for all their primary attribute spells(save warrior and ele, where you'd miss out on superior vigor//superior absorb if you did so). Basicaly you'd totaly alter the entire game, for what? All you would be doing is taking the tactical consideration of what runes to use out of the game, and making it EASIER for other farming builds to be successful.

On a side note, I personaly think this ENTIRE thread was prompted because you didn't know that the "Merchant" and "Rune Trader" pay different prices for runes, and therefore sold your superior rune to the merhcant by mistake, and were upset that you didn't get alot of money for it.